Kicking Her Kids Out of the Car

By Lisa Belkin
DrivingDriving
(Illustration by Barry Falls)

I figure I am supposed to be outraged at the parental neglect. The Westchester County police certainly seem to be, which is why they arrested Madlyn Primoff, a lawyer with a prominent Manhattan law firm, for kicking her two daughters, ages 10 and 12, out of the car Sunday night and leaving them to walk home.

But I’d wager every parent who has a car and more than one child has wanted to do that at one time or another. There is something about children and confined spaces that makes everything ripe for bickering — she looked at me, he breathed my air, her leg touched mine. And it doesn’t help that the sound ricochets about the cabin, driving the driver insane.

Insane is not a good reason to do anything. We grown-ups are supposed to count to three and gather our wits. But depending on the neighborhood — and it’s the Scarsdale/White Plains neighborhood we’re talking about here, an upscale part of town — a 10-year-old and a 12-year-old are old enough to safely find their way home.

According to the Daily News:

The fedup Scarsdale mom – a partner at white-shoe firm Kaye Scholer – soon relented and let her 12-year-old daughter back in when she caught up with the family car. The younger daughter wandered around the corner to Mamaroneck Ave., where a good Samaritan spotted her in tears about 7:30 p.m., bought her ice cream and then approached a cop in a patrol car.

I think I would question that part; to my mind that would be the time to track down the second girl and bring her home now that she was separated from her sister. (CBS News is reporting that Primoff tried to find the daughter, then went home and called the police to report her missing.)

Still, based on the facts so far, which are sparse because neither the police nor the family are releasing very many — I would question whether the response here should really be a night in jail and a restraining order keeping Primoff from her children.

I think it’s a safe bet that these girls are not likely to bicker with each other in the car again, and if they do, I’m betting their mother is equally unlikely to kick them out.

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CM April 23, 2009 · 11:20 am

I agree that this wasn’t the best parenting choice, but criminal charges and a restraining order are certainly overboard. Is it a crime any time a 10 year old is unsupervised?

Debbie R. April 23, 2009 · 11:25 am

“I think it’s a safe bet that these girls are not likely to bicker with each other in the car again”

You make it sound as if that is necessarily a good thing. There are many situations in which children become super children, and sometimes it has to do with feeling the need to compensate for an adult.

Kicking your kid out of the car 3 miles from home sounds pretty harsh no matter how you parse it. It’s possible that this mother has some kind of personality disorder that makes some of her reactions inappropriate.

Clotario April 23, 2009 · 11:28 am

Oh, what drama ensues when mothers and daughters interact…

Lynne Marie April 23, 2009 · 11:37 am

This issue reminded me of the “free-range children” conversation of a while back. The question I have is, was this a neighborhood that was familiar to her children? Was it light out? Was it a safe walk home? Have they ever walked home from there before? In which case–what’s the big deal?

It’s astonishing to me that no one is asking these questions. In my town–not Scarsdale, but a working class mill town in MA–ten and twelve year olds bike and walk all over by themselves. This is not, in itself, child abuse.

If this mom took a risk with her children’s safety because she was angry, then that’s a problem. But if she made a choice consistent with the safe, loving parenting she provides in calmer moments, it’s not.

Lynne Marie
//www.mindbodymama.com

anne from france April 23, 2009 · 11:42 am

We don’t have all the facts.

This said, I have kicked my kids out of the car (and been kicked out of the car myself, a few decades ago and with very good reason). I have also reached back and hit anything within swinging distance, and have pulled over and spanked kids at traffic lights, and I have, horror of horrors, put the country station on REALLY LOUD.

I grew up in Scarsdale, by the way, although I don’t know the mother in question. As a 12-year-old, I used to run, after dark, alone, all over town. I have been back and it hasn’t changed. It is not dangerous.

A restraining order? That seems a little extreme.

I think this woman’s actions are perfectly in line with teaching kids respect for the driver of a moving vehicle. Let’s hope the authorities get some perspective on this before it’s too late.

J April 23, 2009 · 11:49 am

Never make a threat you can’t deliver on.

Helen April 23, 2009 · 11:59 am

I don’t think she should have been arrested. Wasn’t there a post recently about losing kids and that’s it not the end of the world. I know it’s the not the same thing, but the point is, it’s not the end of the world. She didn’t push them out of the car so that the kids would get harmed. Maybe she did it so that she could prevent a car accident. She did it to teach them a lesson. Who knows? Parenting should be left to the parents as long as the kids’ lives aren’t in danger. And based on what I’ve read, it seemed fine.
//mestirfried.blogspot.com/

amlr April 23, 2009 · 12:04 pm

I thought it was a little strange that she didn’t pick the 10 year old up after allowing the 12 year old back in the car. However, she could have picked up the 12 year old and then made a block to get back to the 10 year old who had wandered away by that time. We don’t know what the time frame was, here.

I think the woman might not have made the best decision, but the reaction seems a little harsh, from law enforcement and from the people I’veheard talking about this story today — especially in light of the post from a few days ago in which many of the commentators (and maybe Lisa, too?) pointed out that the crime rate really isn’t any higher now than it was 30 years ago.

Pamela Gwyn Kripke April 23, 2009 · 12:15 pm

When my daughters were about five and six, I remember a time when they got nudgy in the back seat of the car. I told them a few times to leave each other alone. When they ignored the dictate, I selected Drama from my parental toolbox. I had used Reason the day before.

I swerved the car without warning, veering into the curb, safely, though with great effect. In the rear view mirror, I could see their little heads communing in shared surprise, eyes and mouths agape. They would have clung like chimpanzees if not for their regulation car seats.

Of course, I was two doors down from our house, on a little residential street in Dallas. No one got out of the car. Nothing more was said. The threat was enough. And it did not happen again, even at five and six.

I grew up in Scarsdale. Ms. Primroff and I share similar pedigree, at least after high school. (And, by the way, Mamaroneck Avenue, in the dark, would not have felt safe to me at ten.) This incident raises many concerns, in my opinion.

First, bothering each other in the car seems like something ten and twelve year old girls should have stopped doing a while ago. Unless, they are doing it for attention. Ms. Primroff would seem to spend a good deal of time away from her kids, given her impressive job at the law office. Maybe the kids don’t like that. My kids didn’t like it when I took a regular job. It ended in three months, even though the paycheck was nice.

Second, Ms. Primroff made a conscious decision to not only stop the car, but open her door, open her kids’ doors (I presume they didn’t jump out voluntarily), get back into the car and, astoundingly, drive off. Did she look back? Did she put her foot on the brake for just a second? Or did she tear off like one of those mothers who runs out of the house one day, hitch-hikes to Arizona and doesn’t return?

Selfish people do selfish things. Clearly, Ms. Primroff was mired in her own inability to handle life…work, kids, a stomach ache, maybe. Her failure to manage the choices she has made is not her daughters’ faults. Her symbolic disposal of them in the gutter should be cause for her own reflection and the court’s tough judgment.

Pamela Gwyn Kripke
//likeasinglemom.wordpress.com

Brett April 23, 2009 · 12:17 pm

This doesn’t really work out well; either the kids are too young (abusive to do to them) or too old (pointless to try). My mom kicked me out of the car when I was 16. I called a friend from a pay phone; he picked me up and we spent hours hanging out, eating junkfood and laughing about how stupid parents can be.

Ingrid April 23, 2009 · 12:28 pm

I can’t believe this. I got kicked out of the car when I was around that girl’s age and found my way home just fine—although I did try to prolong the walk as long as possible to make my dad think I had gotten lost and make him feel guilty–but I got bored and went home.
The fact that a 12 year old girl couldn’t keep an eye on her younger sister and walk them home in a town I’ve heard nothing but good things about is pathetic. But that’s how they’ve probably been raised, to have any need anticipated and taken care of and when they were on their own they didn’t know what to do other than sit there and cry. And now criminal charges for the mother?
This is absurd.

me, too April 23, 2009 · 12:32 pm

Brett #10 might be right….this doesn’t work.

Two summers ago my boys, then ages 9 and 7, were driving us crazy in the car. After repeated warnings we were fed up with the non-stop arguing, so we pulled over at the end of our street and made them get out of the car. We were exactly one mile from home. We live on a quiet country road. It was still daylight on a warm summer evening. We “ordered” them to “start marching” – and they did. We followed behind them in the car.

When we arrived home they were sweaty but happy, declaring the adventure of walking the mile tons of fun and asking if they could do it again. So much for punishment.

Last summer I took the boys for a weekend at my brother’s house. The ride home – on a hot and humid day – was long and tiresome and, once again, filled with non-stop bickering. By the time we reached the Throgs Neck Bridge I was sure I would throw either them or myself into the water.

The arguing continued until I truly couldn’t drive one more mile with the two of them in the car.

I pulled off the highway into a commuter parking lot. I phoned my husband (at home, about 35 minutes away) and told him where to meet us. I phoned a friend who lived five minutes away and explained the situation, asking her to meet us there, too. Then I removed myself from the situation, getting out of the car and leaning against the hood, warning the boys not to budge from the backseat.

My friend arrived a few minutes later and kept me company (after providing a much-needed hug!). My husband showed up about 30 minutes later and took the boys home. I went out to dinner, by myself, and arrived home after they had gone to bed.

I understand why this Scarsdale mom couldn’t go one more minute with her children in the car.

But I’m not convinced she taught them a lesson.

hank April 23, 2009 · 12:34 pm

My first reaction to this story was, what’s the big deal? A 10-year-old and a 12-year-old are easily old enough to find their way home with no problem. I think this speaks more to how over-protective parents today raise their children with almost zero independence. No activity is unsupervised and constant and mandatory contact via cellphone has left children with no sense of how to fend for themselves.

Heather April 23, 2009 · 12:40 pm

Oh please. Overreact much?

And I’m talking about everyone taking this woman to task for what she did, or not “going back” for the ten year-old… which we don’t know. I can imagine the 10 year-old refusing to get back into the car and running away. (I totally would’ve done that at 10.)

Doesn’t matter if the woman is a lawyer or not, a stay-at-home mom or not. We don’t know her, we don’t know her kids. But we all know that there are times when the same old tricks don’t work and you have to indulge in some “creative parenting.” This harping on the fact that she’s a lawyer sounds pretty classist to me. If she’d been a stay-at-home mom, would we be so scolding? What about a cashier at Wal-Mart? A teacher?

KMM April 23, 2009 · 12:41 pm

I am shocked that some people think it is okay to kick your 10 year old out of the car and then drive off. That poor kid must have been scared to death!
Yes, she should have spent the night in jail so she could think about what she did and how she will ever get her two kids to trust her again.

Suburban Kamikaze April 23, 2009 · 12:42 pm

If there is one thing I have learned in 14 years of parenting it is this: the amount of effort or drama you put into getting your point across is about 75 percent of what it will require the next time. Even so, if this is a situation you cannot relate to as a parent, enjoy your sense of superiority while it lasts!

If there is one other thing I have learned in 14 years of parenting, it escapes me at the moment…

SK
//www.suburbankamikaze.com

sE April 23, 2009 · 12:56 pm

I don’t have a problem with her kicking them out of the car – but she went over the line when she didn’t come back a few minutes later, since the area was really too far to walk home and unfamiliar to the children. Bad judgement that could have led to a dangerous situation.
And what is with the self-centered 12 yr old – why didn’t she stay with her sister? My kids know to look out for each other. A 12 yr old is old enough to babysit, and this girl shoud be thinking beyond herself, knowing her sister might get scared and not know what to do.

Liz April 23, 2009 · 12:57 pm

I agree the official reaction was inappropriate. My solution with my three often-arguing boys is to pull over onto a side-street or into a parking lot. I park and then just sit. They always stop and we talk for a moment about behaving in the car, and then drive on.

WP April 23, 2009 · 1:02 pm

I am familiar with the location where she “lost” the 10 y.o. and it is not a safe place for a 10 y.o. to wander — especially not in the dark. Mamaroneck Avenue is a very busy street. The traffic is heavy and cars drive fast. This mother is out of her mind and the police did the right thing. As for all of the posters who write that they have thrown their kids out of the car so therefore what she did was okay, I would say that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Lisa58 April 23, 2009 · 1:02 pm

According to the story, they were 3 miles from home, in White Plains. There are a lot of highways and parkways around there and people don’t walk from town to town. Public transportation is minimal. I’d be surprised if the kids knew how to get back home. Let alone the question of why mom cooperated with the 12-yr-old’s immediate ditching of the 10-yr-old.

Heather April 23, 2009 · 1:03 pm

Nobody’s freaking out about the stranger buying the ten-year-old ice cream?

; )

Steph April 23, 2009 · 1:09 pm

My mom kicked my then 7yo self out of the car with my 13yo sister one mile from home when we were fighting one day in the cramped cab of her truck.

I still tell her it was her greatest parenting move ever.

Amanda April 23, 2009 · 1:10 pm

My grandmother once threatened to kick my four-year-old brother out of the car at night on a road he didn’t know and could not have found his way home from.

This woman had her kids, 10 and 12, get out of the car in what sounds like their own safe residential neighborhood.

Give me a break – it’s not a big deal.

skyCap April 23, 2009 · 1:22 pm

the girls deserved what they got. My sympathies for the mother.
And Scarsdale police obviously has nothing much else going on, so they chose to charge the mother. What else can bored cops do?

Earl April 23, 2009 · 1:24 pm

The decision to kick her kids to the curb I am sure was done in haste with not much thought.
But as the saying goes, ” All’s well that ends well”

Earl J